Introduction: Hey friends welcome to our digital space on this girl life. We're trying to figure life out... And there's no better way to do that. Then with your best friend by your side. So join us each man as we bring on experts to help us navigate this girl life. Alright, here are your hosts, Whitney and Kristen.

Kristen: Hi guys, welcome back to TGL. It's Kristen and Whitney, and I am fan-girling right now because we have the king of the bachelor on today, we have been alluding to the fact that we have a bachelor lead on the podcast and guys I'm pumped today. Today we have Ben Higgins, Ben, welcome to TGL. I'm so excited!  

Ben: That's quite the intro, thank you. 

Whitney: Well, Kristen is a huge bachelor/bachelorette fan and so she has been so excited and since he said Yes, we were just like...OMG Ben Higgins. We’re so pumped So we're so fun. 

Kristen: Yeah, so for those of you who don't know, He was on The Bachelorette with Kaitilyn Bristowe, then he was the lead Bachelor, then he had his own show Ben and Lauren, then you were on Bachelor Winter Games. Now you have your own bachelor podcast with Ashley. I,

Ben: I mean really stepped away from the Bachelor world.

Kristen: Okay, but you also some amazing things going. You have generous coffee, you have Ash’Kara, you have some amazing things  Non-bachelor related going as well.

Ben: Yeah, I like to hope. So yeah, we're doing some cool stuff. So I'm currently in the process of writing a book which is a big deal for me. It's taking up a ton of time.

Kristen: What's it gonna be about? Can you give us a sneak peak?

Ben:  I can give you a sneak peak. I believe that we're in the most lonely time in US history and the book is about how we can combat loneliness.

Whitney: This is amazing, because my husband and I were just talking about this. It is such a problem and we see it every day with drug use, suicide things like that. So, I am blown away. So excited that you're gonna talk about this.

Ben: Yeah, it's been a project, It's been great, it's been wild. So yes, that will be talked about more and more more here in the next upcoming months but it is something that is near to me it's something I'm learning a ton about that, I'm really excited for, so I have that right now. We have Ash’Kara along with a new restaurant that will be announced next week in Denver. This will be fun. It has a nice outdoor stage. And patio that musically playing and cool be a fun little spot for people who maybe don't wanna go rip shots at a bar and grind on each other, but once to go have a nice time and a cocktail with their significant others.

Bachelor live on stage that will be happening really soon, and then generous, which takes up most of my time. Generous is the thing that keeps me um,I'd say at some level, really, really passionate about something. generous is a great cause a great thing and it's an amazing team around it. So those things kind of consume my life right now.

Kristen: Those things, those nine things that you just think...

Ben: Yeah, but what the cool part is and somebody asked me this yesterday, they're like, when you do all this stuff, do you ever feel like you're losing yourself and has your relationship with Jessica struggled?  the best part about all these things is I get to talk about them and promote them in generous is my full-time job. It does take up a lot of my time, but everything else is partnering with people who know more than I do and are better at it than I am, and I just get to talk about it. And so, I guess the book doesn't really do that. I gotta write a lot too, but it's been a lot of fun and we get to do with a lot of really great people, 

Whitney: that's something I'm sure you get to meet so many since your time on the bachelor, or meeting so many people having your hands and so many different projects, it's special. It's definitely a unique thing that you've been blessed with.

Whitney: Okay, so let's dive in. As I always say, "Okay every bachelor has a bio, you are in Kaitlyn season... Do you remember what your initial bio was a little bit?

Ben: Oh, software salesman. I know it was... So that was my job title, it was a software salesman, I was a software salesman. They actually were generous to me 'cause I wasn't even a software salesman, yet, I think I was a good junior rep when I went to the bachelorette... 

Kristen: How old were you? 

Ben: When I started the batch, I was 24 years old, Whitney: oh my gosh, so I was so young, goodness. Yes, I was so young, I was the youngest. I don't know if Colton was younger than and I had to feel it. I think to date I was the youngest Bachelor. It's a weird world to be entering into in like your lower 20s. It makes the 20s go really fast it... makes you grow up fast, too. But so, I forget what my exact bio was but it was probably something along the lines of, only child, software salesman, trying its best to figure this thing out. 

Whitney: So you obviously just we got into everything you have going now, but if you were to create a little bio now, what would be your bio here?

Ben: 30 Years old trying to figure this thing out, watch him try would be it would be, you know, what if I was the "Bachelor again, I hope my title instead of perfect ben would be “watch him try. You'll maybe relate” or something like it that you... Yeah, so I... Yeah, that is gonna be... 

Kristen: You did get the title perfect ben I kind of forgot about that.

Ben: Yeah, that was tough. I remember when they told me I was in Jamaica and it was a week before filming ended. They're like, "This is gonna be your slogan, and they showed me the commercial and it said Perfect ben and I said, This is the worst thing ever. There's no way you can go up. People relate with vulnerability and your shared weaknesses. They don't relate with somebody, they're like...Yeah, he's perfect. Let's see... How un-perfect he is. So, set me up for failure from the beginning, which is... Which is fun, my goodness.  

Kristen: Okay, so, since we're on the topic, let's dive right into your season. And i just said dive in Whitney. Its like our catch phrase.. So we have a swear jar we basically consider it like the say the word so it goes money, in the jar and I like that. Yeah, so you were the perfect Ben, but you were also the first to say... I love you twice. So yeah, there was some people kind of fought with you on that, what was that like?

Ben: It's really okay, so there's two ways to look at this one. It's really almost funny for me now to look back on that and see how much people hated that and reacted to that compared to what happens today. It happens all the time. Now, it happened, I think it's happened every season maybe since then, other than Nicks. People freak out and it's funny, the entered and morals have changed on that. For me, I did say it, for multiple reasons I meant it, but it, people did react and I didn't think they would, I thought people would relate with it, I thought they would look at it and say, "Hey I get it. He has two really great women he's falling for them. He spent a ton of time both of them, he knows he's gonna have to say goodbye to one of them, if not both of them, but it doesn't mean that it's not hard, it doesn't mean you still don't care... So I thought people would relate with it, but I don't think many did.

Kristen: So, when you said it, it was like "Don't how my husband this, even though this is live He watches" even though he says he doesn't... Okay, and I was like, Adam this was huge. This is the first time. But he was like, "Well yeah, I mean he's been dating these girls for how long, of course he loves them both. Yeah and I was like Oh oh that's a perceptive. It was shocking to me, but you're so right. How do you go through this process? Get to know these girls, so well and not develop feelings that are love like or love feelings.

Ben: I actually think, I think if I remember back because I thought through and prayed through a lot in Jamaica, and I remember going back to sitting there, I was on my bed one day and I was sitting on the edge of it, and I was like, "what do I gonna do, what am I do? You know, I had an idea of how this whole thing was gonna end for me but I was like... I wanna make sure that both of them know how much they are cared for. I want them both to walk away from this knowing that this was real, that this meant a lot to me that hopefully "meant a lot to then... And so I think the best way to do this would be to express these feelings and it.. it back-fired a... 

Whitney: No, it did but everybody who is watching from the outside in, we have no idea what it's like. So honestly, I felt so bad when you got backlash and I feel bad when a lot of people get backlash because I think just for random things on the show, because we have no idea what it's really like.

Ben: Well, but you can kind of relate you can put yourself in the scenario. And the situation was when I was on the big topic back then was, How edited is it, it has to be super edited it has to be super fake, super scripted. And the truth was, it's not, it's just people make fools of themselves, on the show sometimes and it's hard to believe you can put yourself in the shoes of the contestants, and you're trying your best in a situation There's no prep for. Yeah, so there's always gonna be backlash because there's no right way to do this. That's the beauty of the show.

Whitney: Exactly, go ahead. I know Kristen and has a question, you can go ahead.

Kristen: Speaking of backlash, I wanted to move into a topic that would... slut-shaming. So this kind of seems to be a hot topic, and it really started on Katilyns, season, which you were a part of. And she was super vocal that she had relationships with Nick, but then got a ton of backlash she stood up for herself and it seemed to only continue to get worse with the female seasons, but it doesn't happen in the guys seasons, it seems like, like you didn't get slut-shamed. I don't know what happened, I don't need to know, but we the guys, and the guys don't talk about it. The girls are very open, like Yeah, it's sex four times in a windmill. And then she got slut shamed right.

Whitney: Wait, 'cause then I don't know.

Ben: Yeah, well, I just don't know how you have energy.

Kristen: but what are your thoughts on how this is happening and why is it not having in guy season and why is it progressing worse, seemingly in an area where we're getting more comfortable with girls being vocal about sex, but on the bachelorette... It seems to be getting worse for them.

Ben: Well, I mean, I think one of it is... So here's a good example right -- when the car was created, we didn't have stop signs because nobody knew that they were gonna be necessary. And so, for example, there was a ton of accidents and chaos that caused us to put up stop signs.
The same thing will happen with this is the same thing will happen with social media is... We're just now starting to talk about equality when it comes to sexuality now is that fair? No, it's not, we have a lot of years of things we shouldn't be proud of, but we've had to step into this and we have to step into it and know that there will be an evolution and I think that evolution is gonna happen quicker. And you think, "I don't think I think about this. We freaked out that I said I love you to two women, you can have sex with four people and it's not that big a deal you're saying in a sense, the same thing, but it's a less of an idea now than it was four years ago.  We're progressing for now. Why there's a difference with men and women, I think it's been that way since I was a kid, is man can get away with a lot more than women can when it comes to sexuality, and that's unfortunate. 
We don't... No, I don't think any person with a lot of brain would say that that's fair, right? We need to work through that. It's just still the place that we're in. So I think this show does a really great job helping us walk into that forcing us to talk about it forcing us to have the conversation and it's forcing us to confront, it.  This season was hard to watch because as a Christian myself, I thought that the Christians got a really judgmental isolating name based on how this was done this year.
Yeah, but I still think that it was confronted. Which will help everybody in the process. Every single side will relate and understand. Now my final point here is that the women do seem more open and I think that's something that is unique. We've had women like Kaitlyn and women like Hannah who have spoken openly about it and you don't have the men speaking openly about it. I don't know what that says. If it comes from a confidence if it comes from a... Hey, I'm just gonna stand up and walk so others can run, but it has been the case. I do remember when Katelyn and Nick had their romance on that season. It's hard as a contestant, though. And so I do think I feel for the other contestants 'cause it makes you question why you're there, because it's not easy.

Kristen: Is that how you felt? 

Ben: Yeah, I think I use... Most people felt... Yeah, not just with Kaitlyn but I'm sure even when you see somebody else get physical with anybody, and you're trying to pursue them, it's not easy. I do think that's part of it is, why it is a topic that causes controversy on the show, why the show's filming that people get upset, over. I don't think it's that wrong, of them to voice. Hey, I'm hurt. Hey, this doesn't feel good. I'm questioning myself here, right? But I do think their response to the public to say, "Hey let's have equality and this is needed, and I just don't think we've gotten there yet as a society.

Whitney: Not yet, you you hit on an interesting point. We're both two Christian girls. And I think this season was a little bit difficult. Obviously, we're talking about two different things, Luke, slut shaming. And then as a woman, being empowered. But something about you that we've noticed is, you are an outspoken Christian, and this platform has seemed to give you and allowed you to be more outspoken and have a bigger vocal reach and that's something we definitely appreciate that you're just like you out there, you speak on it 'cause I don't think that that's talked about as much either.

Ben: Well, and it's not for me. I remember this was funny, when I was a little kid, I prayed one night in my bed to be an NBA basketball player. I say, "You help me become an NBA basketball player. I will use it to talk about you and I'm never gonna be an NBA basketball player. I didn't pray for that to be the bachelor, but now that I am, all of a sudden it hits you, that this has to be used for something more than yourself. And I'm not a Christian because of how my parents raised me and I'm not a believer in Jesus because of the church I went to, I'm a believer in Jesus 'cause I believe it's an actual it's truth and if that's true, then it changes everything. So, for me, it doesn't make sense, my life doesn't make sense unless I talk about Jesus. but I also think it's important in this world to talk about Jesus because of situations like the Luke or because of the situations like sexuality is it does frame our moral compass. It does set an idea of where we're coming from so it helps us to understand each other better. And next I truly believe that Jesus created us no matter what sex no matter where you're from. And so when we talk about topics like this, and it does feel like one side is getting less criticism or maybe one side eating too much criticism we have to stand up and say women keep preaching your story keep talking because we need you here to help educate the masses on why equality one Is it happening and why it's needed. And as a Christian, I believe that's essential to the story of God and us is that equality is needed, it's necessary, in how we're gonna function. So it frames my compass and it helps me look through the lens of what I think God would desire not so much of what I would then preach, preach, 

Kristen: I have a big question on just bachelor nation in general. Okay, so we all know bachelor nation is very connected for spans we follow you guys see, you connect. What is it like being a part of this big community of everyone that's dated? Everyone are not dated everyone, but you know everyone and leads are friends with each other.

Whitney: What is that like for an outsider? 'cause i,

Ben: kind  messed up community, a lot of drama I use of people at... Yeah, a bunch of people trying their best. As I said, I think the one cool part for me is, I do get to meet a lot of the new Bachelors. And I was able to talk to Peter before he went on and I heard his heart for why he's doing this and I know Colton I've known the guys everyone of them since my time other than I didn't get to know Arie until after his time. But what you realized very quickly is that these are people trying their best to find significance in the world that is incredibly selfish. So the bachelor coming off the Bachelor is an incredibly selfish, endeavor. You get on to it, it can be a great thing, but once you get off your praise for your looks, your social media following, your charisma; all these things and what it ends up being is incredibly selfish and isolating. And so part of this whole thing has been for me to learn that these people are so much more than what they really are, just people trying to find an identity in a world that isn't easy doing it.  Also, there's a lot of hook-up and then there's a lot of people pursuing people because think about it, you get, I don't know, 30 new people every season, of it that is good looking and connected to the group stuff is gonna happen, but it's been really complex and the cool part for me and to summarize it, all is every season, you get 30 new people. I don't get to meet all of them, but I get to meet some of them who have a different story, that life has brought them here from different places, and now we all have something in common, that we can share and talk about and it's great because it does open you up to a whole new friends every season.

Whitney: Yeah, yeah, that is special. To be able to meet all in people who are on all different walks of life. Yeah, and that's special and it's neat but you have a hand in that 'cause I consider you like and this is like you, you're like the grandfather of the group. I don't know, I just kinda see, I was like this and wise owl

Ben:  At 30 years old I'm in... It's funny, you know what I hope to be, I hope to, because this is such a crazy world and it blows up your world up in minutes. If you're announced as The Bachelor. I hope to just be somebody there to say, "Hey if I can do it, you can do it, you're gonna be okay. This thing is gonna be a wild ride, but the end of the day, I hope they can look at my life and say it changed you but it just made you more fully human than you were when I was selling software, for a company I didn't really love. Yeah, I and so, yeah, thank you for that. I hope I can continue to be a resource and somebody that can relate with people coming on and off the show, but at some point I'm not gonna be 30, I'm gonna be 60 and this shows is gonna be happening/

Whitney: Listen, you can move in to chris harrisons role, don't tell him, but you can just like a line right in it than you, you, I oneself on him. Well, I talk about sliding. This is such a great transition. I didn't even plan on that. Okay, let's talk about sliding into people's DMs, because I heard... Yeah, you slide into your girlfriend's DM, but I heard you did it in a really gentlemanly, way. Because siding into people's DMs, the better ones, it's like you get a bad rep. Talk about JP J and Derek from paradise sliding into the DMs. But I do... So we want you to share like how you did this. How can we be a gentleman's lighting into someone's DMs for all the girls listening what should they expect?

Ben: Okay, so I'll read you the exact message I sent Jessica, the exact message. the sense. Yes, I go "Okay yeah, I said Okay. random requests in the spirit of giving. Oh, this is on Thanksgiving by the way, okay. In the spirit of giving don't know how else to do do this without it being weird. So, please, be kind, if you're first single and second ever in Denver and interested in going out, I'd love to take you please for now  don't ask, I came by your profile. It's a long story. 

Kristen: I just saw you guys on an interview with Access Hollywood or something. I heart radio and you guys are so cute.

Whitney: Yeah, she is the best... So, just so cute.

Ben: Yeah, she's a great girl. So it actually happened a year ago, so I had was what, two weeks ago, so it was a year ago, two weeks ago, I was at I heart, and I was single, and I was, I was dating, but I was trying to figure life out, and I had been in and out of dating somebody for a few months, but I didn't think it was gonna be the right thing forever so I was at I heart and I was like, Guys you're dating... You're out there. How are you doing this because, either one, I'm not persuable... And my whole fears are coming to fruition or two, I'm just not doing it right.
And they said, "Well how often do you DM people? And I said, "I've never DMed anybody. I really hadn't because I thought I had the idea, it was creepy, it was weird. You're putting yourself out there, you're saying stuff that I don't even know how to confront it, and they're like, "You just gotta do it, shoot your shot. It was Wells because that's how I think he and Sarah somehow met through that and then it was Nick and it was Dean all is like circle . And so I went home and I had Jessica’s picture. This sounds creepy takes plan. I was at a fundraiser in Nashville, I was at a fundraiser in Nashville in February of last year, and I was staying at a hotel downtown, and I was looking at the top post from the Nashville Predators game, which is right next to the hotel that I was staying at and I saw her picture, I was like, "That girl is beautiful, but this is weird but I don't know to do with it. So I'm screenshot-ing it, and then I totally forgot about it. Completely forgot about it, didn't even think about it and then this conversation happened, at I Heart... And so, I had in the back of my mind and on Thanksgiving last year I was laying in my aunt and uncles bed, not their bed but a bat at their house and I was scrolling through my picture is deleting whole pictures deleting old pictures that day. And I saw that picture of her, and I was like, "You know what, based on my conversation with them? And based on this picture I'm gonna send her this message. So I did it. And here's the way to answer your question, how do you do it in non creepy way? I think you have to be honest with the fact that it's weird, like it is odd, but it's a compliment . It could go epically wrong, but I think if you're honest with... Hey, I'm approaching this from a weird place. I don't really know where this goes, but I'm at least gonna tell you if all us fails, if all it feels, at least I'm telling you I'm interested in you, and so you should take it as a compliment that you're so pretty that your Instagram, even catches my eye, I love that.

Whitney: Yeah, I like that too.

Kristen: Okay guys, we're moving in, 'cause we're running out of time, and I wanna let them move on but rapid fire questions, Are you ready? 

Okay, person from the Bachelor you text the most but it can't be Ashley because we know she's your co-host.

Ben: Dean 

Whitney: Favorite podcast, besides your own like back or podcast. And it can't be this girl life because we know this girl life is one of them.

Ben: This Girl Life would be number one. And then after that, it would be The Daily or This American Life.

Kristen: Favorite cocktail?

Ben: Old-fashioned  

Whitney: Favorite artist singer?

Ben: Ben Rechter Amos Lee 

Kristen: Favorite place to go in Denver?

Ben: Ash’Kara

Whitney: Alright, box or for a brief?

Ben: Oh, this is gonna be weird. Nothing. This is something, yeah this is something that happened years ago from Dean two years ago. 

Kristen: He also doesn’t like undies.

Ben: Yeah, he told me that I needed to start trying it and so I did it. It's been fine most of the time, it's fine. jeans aren't always great. And then it hit me a year ago, when I was working out and I was like, "I don't know how he does this 'cause this is not good like this. There's a moment that this gets weird. So I call them and I was like, "How do you do that? He's like Dude. I always were underwear when I’m working. We're working out so if I'm working out, it's like a brief.

Whitney: We do a segment called Yay and Nay with Whit and K - One thing you're loving one thing you're hating. So what is something you're loving right now?

Ben: What is something I'm loving right now? There's a wine company called 'upside down wine that I'm looking at right here that I love their wine company that's built like generous, and so, they give back to causes they care about. The other thing that I'm loving right now, is I have these new Blue ray glasses. I don't have them close to me, but they're the best they protect me from my phone and computer light. And then finally If we’re talking on a larger level. What I'm really loving right now is for the first time ever I had a pepper garden and it's now ending in Denver, but I had some really great peppers, a season and I'm really enjoying the fruits of my labor, we're just going up and up in my coolness.

Ben: I knew that I... That excites that excites any woman. You talk about peppers and gardening and things get of it, like you honestly are like right here, you... 

Kristen: Okay, what are you not loving?

Ben: I am not. Here's one thing I'm not loving I'm trying to look around the house, and see what I'm not loving - I'm not loving currently, my sock situation I've gotten a lot of holes in so and I just, this morning, started to figure out that I need to go shopping for socks at a... 
Oh, the other thing I don't love is the bee population is dwindling Right now in Colorado, and I'm after gardening, I really wanna start supporting the bees and it's really sad to do more and more research, on how quickly honey bees are moving away from us in this world, and we need to stand up and do something about it.  Final thing is, for whatever reason, Me, Myself and plastics have had a really bad issue recently, and I have a hard time going to the grocery store now and they say, "Is it okay if we give you Plastic? And I wish they would just say, "Is it okay if you carried this stuff out on your own because you can do it, it's not that far. And instead of offering more plastics, into the world, we start getting better. And that sucks because I used to not care about the waste that I was throwing away. And now as I get older, I realize it more and more, which adds a whole new level of guilt to my life that I don't need to more guilt on but I think it's a good guilt... I think it's a... Yeah, it...

Kristen: What I've learned today is, we have to send him some socks we need to send him a reusable grocery bag, which I have the best one that's made of burlap, and says, Denver, Colorado on it, so I'm gonna get that. 

Whitney: So yeah, we'll send you some stuff because I'm telling you, it's the worst when you're working out and you can feel your toe go through a hole. I've been there. Kristen, and I have have been best friends forever since junior high. We love each other so much, we get the best advice from each other, so we wanna know what is the best piece of advice you've ever received from your best friend?

Ben: Well, I got a friend in Reno Nevada, and I was dating Jess and I hadn’t announced publicly, and I was telling him how fearful I was for that change in my life because my identity had been built around me being single, I was I feel like I was known for being single people celebrated my singleness and so, but I said, "Hey I wanna do this, I wanna announce this, I care about this. Girl, i’m scared, and he sent me a text and he said, this new season of life. Yes, will look different. It may not even be more exciting, but it's gonna be more fulfilling, and it's gonna be worth it, because what you're doing is you're committing to somebody, which is an act of selflessness and selflessness is always rewarded. So that's the most... Because it allowed me to walk into my relationship with Jessica giving up my identity as a single man entering into a new season of a committed man and also being excited about the next steps that we are gonna take together to try to make magic happen, in life. So that's the best. To date. The other would be, and I always talk about it, but Chris Harrison once told me when I got off, I kicked off a Kaitlyns season of the bachelorette I was sitting the bar downstairs, at night, and he came over and he sat by him and he goes... Hey, how are you doing... And I said I'm okay so I don't really know what this whole thing is. He goes, Man. This is gonna change a lot, he's like, This is gonna just be crazy when you get off this thing is like I don't see that I don't know what that is like a... I don't know he is a man, he's like Your life is gonna be a little crazy once this thing announced and he goes Here, is my advice, he goes, "The best people come off of this show and they out to enhance the life they've already had and been given and not change it completely. And so he says I just had he's like... I just request through every decision, and every new opportunity and every new thing that's asked of you filter it through the idea of this, is this enhancing my life. Or is this completely changing everything is it changing? Who I've always been who I've always wanted to be... That's kind of still think about things today is this enhancing my life. Or is it changing it? And sometimes you need a little change or anything, you're kicking them but... But I think what we're talking about there is a changing meeting, we're losing ourselves in the process.

Kristen: I feel like you just put a different perspective on my whole life, I'm already looking at things like... Is that enhancing that today? Like what?

Whitney: You gave us so many little nuggets of wisdom you are even more awesome than we thought you were gonna be. Honestly, you're just such a good guy.

Ben: Just chatting over Skype, it's insane, you know, what I be really bad if we got off this thing, you're like, yeah you were okay, all like you really excited about this. I can try again next time.
I don't see that happening, I don't think, I don't see you saying that in but if you felt it, I apologize. We'll try again some time I don't. 

Whitney: We really appreciate you too. Are you a jem? I told you the gardening thing just went here. It's just like you're up here.

Ben: Thank you guys, I'll see you in Denver come to Ash’Kara.

Kristen: Oh, Yes, Whitney has to come visit me and then we’re going to Ash’Kara.